bezerk
New member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1C2Mos_4LA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1C2Mos_4LA&feature=related
T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
- Thread starter Six-is-Enough
- Start date
cloneman315
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
the bike won
the bike won
bezerk
New member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
on the straight stuff. it is loosing in corners. a good prep. car can take a turn at higher speeds than a bike. it's a proven fact. but the bike accelaretes faster and catches up real quick.
it's been proven over and over
on the straight stuff. it is loosing in corners. a good prep. car can take a turn at higher speeds than a bike. it's a proven fact. but the bike accelaretes faster and catches up real quick.
it's been proven over and over
cloneman315
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
i guess
i guess
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
I already stated, during the last debacle of a thread in which I responded to Dobrick, that the ONLY car that might have a chance against a bike on a road course is a F1 car. A showroom V-twin Ducati is not the best bike to pit on a track (I owned a Duc 748 SPS and a 996 but if you want to keep the challenge pure Italian like they did, then you have to use Italian hardware). The best track bike I have been on thus far is a Yamaha R1 even though I play around on a R6. The fastest way through a curve is to straighten it out, technically speaking. Since a bike is 2 feet wide and a car about 7, the bike can carry more speed into the curve, has more room to straighten it out (per say) and can exit faster as well, simply because the transfer of weight opposing gravitational force is less and the weight to HP ratio is so large. What transpires during a ballgame doesn't matter.....the final score does and what transpires during a race doesn't matter.....who is in front at the end does. When you pit a bike against a car, 9.99 times out of 10 the bike will win. You just can't make mistakes on a bike and get away with it like you can a car though!
I already stated, during the last debacle of a thread in which I responded to Dobrick, that the ONLY car that might have a chance against a bike on a road course is a F1 car. A showroom V-twin Ducati is not the best bike to pit on a track (I owned a Duc 748 SPS and a 996 but if you want to keep the challenge pure Italian like they did, then you have to use Italian hardware). The best track bike I have been on thus far is a Yamaha R1 even though I play around on a R6. The fastest way through a curve is to straighten it out, technically speaking. Since a bike is 2 feet wide and a car about 7, the bike can carry more speed into the curve, has more room to straighten it out (per say) and can exit faster as well, simply because the transfer of weight opposing gravitational force is less and the weight to HP ratio is so large. What transpires during a ballgame doesn't matter.....the final score does and what transpires during a race doesn't matter.....who is in front at the end does. When you pit a bike against a car, 9.99 times out of 10 the bike will win. You just can't make mistakes on a bike and get away with it like you can a car though!
bezerk
New member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
i agree that a bike will be faster in the end. but during cornering. it has be proven over and over and over. even laid out at the track following a race bike from the superbikes against race cars. you can see that the car enters the corner faster and keeps up the speed. the bike will catch up accelerating
i agree that a bike will be faster in the end. but during cornering. it has be proven over and over and over. even laid out at the track following a race bike from the superbikes against race cars. you can see that the car enters the corner faster and keeps up the speed. the bike will catch up accelerating
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
Because most likely they have never ridden OR mastered a bike. Books won't teach a person that.....only seat time will.
Probably about 3 hours or so. I used to go through a set of knee pucs a day at Deal's Gap but I am not as eager to show off like I used to. We still crank through there though at a hefty clip after we perform a test ride in search of the law. Last fall, the VW R32 club went through (about 70 cars) and they performed great. I have since sold my R32 so now I will do it with the Z06 club next year. Let me know if you ever want to make a few passes. I have lots of video taped from either my bike or a friends.....just wish I knew how to post them on youtube. Asiago in Italy is some nice footage and blood mountain passes in GA are entertaining too.
Because most likely they have never ridden OR mastered a bike. Books won't teach a person that.....only seat time will.
Probably about 3 hours or so. I used to go through a set of knee pucs a day at Deal's Gap but I am not as eager to show off like I used to. We still crank through there though at a hefty clip after we perform a test ride in search of the law. Last fall, the VW R32 club went through (about 70 cars) and they performed great. I have since sold my R32 so now I will do it with the Z06 club next year. Let me know if you ever want to make a few passes. I have lots of video taped from either my bike or a friends.....just wish I knew how to post them on youtube. Asiago in Italy is some nice footage and blood mountain passes in GA are entertaining too.
bezerk
New member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
i think when somebody races for his paycheck. and has a big sponsorship behind him they can ride a bike pretty well. i don't know were you get the illusion that it's different. maybe your time at a track vs somebody else. i'm talking about people that drive for money. experienced drivers. not like you and me that just go fast for pleasure.
i think when somebody races for his paycheck. and has a big sponsorship behind him they can ride a bike pretty well. i don't know were you get the illusion that it's different. maybe your time at a track vs somebody else. i'm talking about people that drive for money. experienced drivers. not like you and me that just go fast for pleasure.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
On a decreasing radius corner, a car will outperform a bike (we agree).....on a neutral or increasing radius curve, the bike will outperform the car and you'd have to prove it otherwise. Most courses are comprised of 20% decreasing, 30% increasing and 50% neutral radius curves so the advantage is in the bikes favor. We are also considering professional drivers/riders with professional equipment. F1 cars run $1,500,000; superbikes come in around $140,000 and I doubt any of us are gonna be at that level. Get a showroom bike for $10-14,000 like the new Suzuki GSX-R 750, throw a set of Pirelli race compound tires on it and I will stake a major sum that the bike will be way out in front on any road course in the USA (I would have to be riding the bike :tup
.
On a decreasing radius corner, a car will outperform a bike (we agree).....on a neutral or increasing radius curve, the bike will outperform the car and you'd have to prove it otherwise. Most courses are comprised of 20% decreasing, 30% increasing and 50% neutral radius curves so the advantage is in the bikes favor. We are also considering professional drivers/riders with professional equipment. F1 cars run $1,500,000; superbikes come in around $140,000 and I doubt any of us are gonna be at that level. Get a showroom bike for $10-14,000 like the new Suzuki GSX-R 750, throw a set of Pirelli race compound tires on it and I will stake a major sum that the bike will be way out in front on any road course in the USA (I would have to be riding the bike :tup
.
bezerk
New member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
read this man:
http://blog.racedv.com/2007/11/car-vs-bike.html
read this man:
http://blog.racedv.com/2007/11/car-vs-bike.html
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
True, but in order to gain big sponsorship, they have to prove they can not only ride but win. F1 cars do a whole lot very well, but so do superbikes and like I stated, you can push the limits of a F1 car where you would be foolish to push a superbike. You lower the standard of car below F1 and the bike wins. What other type of race car do you feel would hang with say a Yamaha R1 or a Honda CBR 929 on a track...just curious?
True, but in order to gain big sponsorship, they have to prove they can not only ride but win. F1 cars do a whole lot very well, but so do superbikes and like I stated, you can push the limits of a F1 car where you would be foolish to push a superbike. You lower the standard of car below F1 and the bike wins. What other type of race car do you feel would hang with say a Yamaha R1 or a Honda CBR 929 on a track...just curious?
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
Very interesting read. I have been through the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Racing in Phoenix, AZ and also through the Bill Scott Racing school near Winchester, VA. Under race conditions, the inside tires of a car are barely in contact with the surface which negates any additional traction advantage. The GT3 is racing the smallest 4 stroke displacement production bike on the market, the 600 and according to the link, validates your point. I stated the best track bike I have been on is the Yamaha R1. Let them use that bike and I believe you would see a stark contrast, whether in the curves on in a straight.
Very interesting read. I have been through the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Racing in Phoenix, AZ and also through the Bill Scott Racing school near Winchester, VA. Under race conditions, the inside tires of a car are barely in contact with the surface which negates any additional traction advantage. The GT3 is racing the smallest 4 stroke displacement production bike on the market, the 600 and according to the link, validates your point. I stated the best track bike I have been on is the Yamaha R1. Let them use that bike and I believe you would see a stark contrast, whether in the curves on in a straight.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
In the US, they won't allow bikes and cars on the same track at the same time. I wish they would so I could prove the theory.
In the US, they won't allow bikes and cars on the same track at the same time. I wish they would so I could prove the theory
.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
You are right in that you can only go so fast into and through a curve so higher HP is mute on a 600 series bike but on a R1 or 929 RR, the chassis length grows a little bit and the meat on the wheels is larger so the contact patch is larger as well which gives more traction for higher entry and exit speeds. That is the main reason why superbikes are often hovering near the 1,000 cc mark.
You are right in that you can only go so fast into and through a curve so higher HP is mute on a 600 series bike but on a R1 or 929 RR, the chassis length grows a little bit and the meat on the wheels is larger so the contact patch is larger as well which gives more traction for higher entry and exit speeds. That is the main reason why superbikes are often hovering near the 1,000 cc mark.
cloneman315
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
maybe jamie has some info on this
maybe jamie has some info on this
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
Good question....here's 2 answers that a internet search will verify;
Road Atlanta: Car Record, 1.30.76 in a Scion TC
Bike Record, 1.21.68 on a Suzuki GSXR 1000
Road America: Car Record, 2.29.70 in a Evo X
Bike Record, 2.11.024 on a Honda CBR 1000 RR
If you have a particular track in mind, let me know and I'll do some digging :tup:
Good question....here's 2 answers that a internet search will verify;
Road Atlanta: Car Record, 1.30.76 in a Scion TC
Bike Record, 1.21.68 on a Suzuki GSXR 1000
Road America: Car Record, 2.29.70 in a Evo X
Bike Record, 2.11.024 on a Honda CBR 1000 RR
If you have a particular track in mind, let me know and I'll do some digging :tup:
T-Bone
Active member
Re: T-Bone VS JSM where should it be settled
Here's some proof to validate my input;
2008 Factory Line-up
Yoshimura Suzuki GSX-R1000
#1 Ben Spies
#66 Mat Mladin
#22 Tommy Hayden
Kawasaki ZX-10R
#95 Roger Lee Hayden
# 2 Jamie Hacking
American Honda CBR1000RR
#98 Jake Zemke
#17 Miguel Duhamel
Yamaha YZF-R1
#32 Eric Bostrom
#40 Jason DiSalvo
#155 Ben Bostrom
Josh Herrin
Here's some proof to validate my input;
2008 Factory Line-up
Yoshimura Suzuki GSX-R1000
#1 Ben Spies
#66 Mat Mladin
#22 Tommy Hayden
Kawasaki ZX-10R
#95 Roger Lee Hayden
# 2 Jamie Hacking
American Honda CBR1000RR
#98 Jake Zemke
#17 Miguel Duhamel
Yamaha YZF-R1
#32 Eric Bostrom
#40 Jason DiSalvo
#155 Ben Bostrom
Josh Herrin