Engine Bearings Gone
- Thread starter The Devils Own Chariot
- Start date
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
Melling has oil pump pick up assemblies for SBC oil pumps for 9" , 9.5" and 9.75" deep oil pan which are either too short or too long when using a Melling Select 10552 oil pump. . Due to a lack of demand, Melling has not developed a oil pump pick up assembly specifically for a Chevy 4.3L V6 with 4WD 9.25" oil pan using a Melling Select HV oil pump. .
With all oil pick up assemblies and especially the longer ones, it is very important to precisely internally balance the engine and use a high quality neutral balance harmonic damper and a neutral balance counter weighted flex plate. A high quality harmonic damper is necessary with high RPM engines to dampen harmonics that can cause a oil pump pick up assembly to come loose from the pump housing. Even if the inlet tube is brazed to the oil pump housing, the weld can break at high RPM can cause the let tube to fall off.. Oil pumps come with weak bottom plate bolts to prevent them from being over torqued. The bolt head will break off if excessive torque is applied and will save the oil pump. DO NOT REPLACE THE ORIGINAL BOTTOM PLATE BOLTS WITH STRONGER BOLTS. The weak fasteners is a preventative measure to prevent over tightening. If a engine builder uses stronger gr. 5 or gr. 8 bolts and applies too much torque to the bolts, the bolts will pull the weak cast iron threads in the pump housing. If you remove the bottom cover to braze the inlet tube to the pump housing or for any other reason, use 72 in/lb torque on the original 1/4"-20 fasteners with red Loctite....or use bolts drilled for safety wire.
Melling has oil pump pick up assemblies for SBC oil pumps for 9" , 9.5" and 9.75" deep oil pan which are either too short or too long when using a Melling Select 10552 oil pump. . Due to a lack of demand, Melling has not developed a oil pump pick up assembly specifically for a Chevy 4.3L V6 with 4WD 9.25" oil pan using a Melling Select HV oil pump. .
With all oil pick up assemblies and especially the longer ones, it is very important to precisely internally balance the engine and use a high quality neutral balance harmonic damper and a neutral balance counter weighted flex plate. A high quality harmonic damper is necessary with high RPM engines to dampen harmonics that can cause a oil pump pick up assembly to come loose from the pump housing. Even if the inlet tube is brazed to the oil pump housing, the weld can break at high RPM can cause the let tube to fall off.. Oil pumps come with weak bottom plate bolts to prevent them from being over torqued. The bolt head will break off if excessive torque is applied and will save the oil pump. DO NOT REPLACE THE ORIGINAL BOTTOM PLATE BOLTS WITH STRONGER BOLTS. The weak fasteners is a preventative measure to prevent over tightening. If a engine builder uses stronger gr. 5 or gr. 8 bolts and applies too much torque to the bolts, the bolts will pull the weak cast iron threads in the pump housing. If you remove the bottom cover to braze the inlet tube to the pump housing or for any other reason, use 72 in/lb torque on the original 1/4"-20 fasteners with red Loctite....or use bolts drilled for safety wire.
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Re: Engine Bearings Gone
If you choose to use a HV or a high pressure oil pump, avoid Champion Labs Ecore oil filters. That includes late production AC Delco PF52 oil filters and most other brands of oil filter made by Chanpion Labs. You can lose an engine if the Ecore design plastic center tube collapses due to high differential pressure (back pressure). High differential pressure (PSID) can be caused by high flow volume, a restrictive or clogged filter element or high pressure. . Champion Labs Ecore (Enviromental Core) oil filters have a plastic center tubes which have been known to collapse in high performance engines and starve the engine of oil at high RPM when the engine needs it most. Look into the center of the oil filter, regardless of the brand, and make sure it has a perforated METAL tube rather than a plastic Ecore tube.
I use AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold for 5000 mile oil and filter changes and use WIX 51036 oil filters for 2000 mile filter only changes. The AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters I have were made by AC Delco and have perforated metal center tubes and metal end caps. AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters were made before the GM bankruptcy forced the company to spin off the AC Delco Parts Division. Now AC Delco oil filters are made by Champion Labs or by the lowest bidder. AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters are not being made anymore and are in limited supply. Champion Labs makes most brands of oil filters today and have the so-called "new and improved" Ecore design. WIX makes their own brand , NAPA 1036 Gold.oil filters, NAPA Select, Car Quest, and a few others.
Chevrolet 4.3L V6 engines have a differential pressure by-pass valve located in the block above the oil filter cooler line adapter and the Chevrolets with 4WD also have a differential pressure by-pass valve in the remote oil filter adapter. That is why WIX 50136 oil filters do not have a by-pass valve. Engines with differential pressure by-pass valves will help prevent dry starts when the engine is cold. About the same time the Ecore design was introduced by Champion Labs, GM revised the differential pressure by-pass valves in the block from 11 PSID to 21 PSID. GM specified a 21 PSID by-pass valve located in the block above the oil filter adapter and in the remote oil filter adapter that is mounted on the LF fender. That was in case the oil filter becomes restricted for some reason either by clogged filter or a collapsed center tube. Some WIX filter have a combo by-pass/anti-drain back valve. The WIX 51036 oil filter used of ST10 Chevrolet 4.3L V6 3ngines and other GM remote oil filter/cooler applications has a anti-drain back valve but it does not have a specific bypass valve. . However, the filters without a specific bypass valve will bypass oil to the in the engine block if the differential pressure exceeds 21 PSID. The differential pressure forced the filter element down against the spring in the bottom of the filter and exposes the holes in the top plate to the cavity above the oil filter where the bypass valve is located in the engine block.
The combo bypass/anti-drain back valve was invented and filed at the US Patent Office in August in 1992 for the DANA (WIX) Corporation and is only used on certain oil filters for engines that do not have a by pass valve. That feature is not used in oil filters that are used on engines with oil coolers and remote oil filters..
This probably old news but you should always check those center tubes in your filters and make sure they are not Champion Labs Ecore plastic tubes.
If you choose to use a HV or a high pressure oil pump, avoid Champion Labs Ecore oil filters. That includes late production AC Delco PF52 oil filters and most other brands of oil filter made by Chanpion Labs. You can lose an engine if the Ecore design plastic center tube collapses due to high differential pressure (back pressure). High differential pressure (PSID) can be caused by high flow volume, a restrictive or clogged filter element or high pressure. . Champion Labs Ecore (Enviromental Core) oil filters have a plastic center tubes which have been known to collapse in high performance engines and starve the engine of oil at high RPM when the engine needs it most. Look into the center of the oil filter, regardless of the brand, and make sure it has a perforated METAL tube rather than a plastic Ecore tube.
I use AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold for 5000 mile oil and filter changes and use WIX 51036 oil filters for 2000 mile filter only changes. The AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters I have were made by AC Delco and have perforated metal center tubes and metal end caps. AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters were made before the GM bankruptcy forced the company to spin off the AC Delco Parts Division. Now AC Delco oil filters are made by Champion Labs or by the lowest bidder. AC Delco UPF52 Ultraguard Gold oil filters are not being made anymore and are in limited supply. Champion Labs makes most brands of oil filters today and have the so-called "new and improved" Ecore design. WIX makes their own brand , NAPA 1036 Gold.oil filters, NAPA Select, Car Quest, and a few others.
Chevrolet 4.3L V6 engines have a differential pressure by-pass valve located in the block above the oil filter cooler line adapter and the Chevrolets with 4WD also have a differential pressure by-pass valve in the remote oil filter adapter. That is why WIX 50136 oil filters do not have a by-pass valve. Engines with differential pressure by-pass valves will help prevent dry starts when the engine is cold. About the same time the Ecore design was introduced by Champion Labs, GM revised the differential pressure by-pass valves in the block from 11 PSID to 21 PSID. GM specified a 21 PSID by-pass valve located in the block above the oil filter adapter and in the remote oil filter adapter that is mounted on the LF fender. That was in case the oil filter becomes restricted for some reason either by clogged filter or a collapsed center tube. Some WIX filter have a combo by-pass/anti-drain back valve. The WIX 51036 oil filter used of ST10 Chevrolet 4.3L V6 3ngines and other GM remote oil filter/cooler applications has a anti-drain back valve but it does not have a specific bypass valve. . However, the filters without a specific bypass valve will bypass oil to the in the engine block if the differential pressure exceeds 21 PSID. The differential pressure forced the filter element down against the spring in the bottom of the filter and exposes the holes in the top plate to the cavity above the oil filter where the bypass valve is located in the engine block.
The combo bypass/anti-drain back valve was invented and filed at the US Patent Office in August in 1992 for the DANA (WIX) Corporation and is only used on certain oil filters for engines that do not have a by pass valve. That feature is not used in oil filters that are used on engines with oil coolers and remote oil filters..
This probably old news but you should always check those center tubes in your filters and make sure they are not Champion Labs Ecore plastic tubes.
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Re: Engine Bearings Gone
LOL, I am not trying to take credit for that information and risk internet plagiarism. I have obtained it through experience, my engine builder I have used since 1969 and dozens of other reliable sources, including some sources on the internet. I wrote it for your use on this particular subject... if you want it.
Are we supposed to provide acknowledgments to every thing we write or just end a statement with "IMO".
LOL, I am not trying to take credit for that information and risk internet plagiarism. I have obtained it through experience, my engine builder I have used since 1969 and dozens of other reliable sources, including some sources on the internet. I wrote it for your use on this particular subject... if you want it.
Are we supposed to provide acknowledgments to every thing we write or just end a statement with "IMO".
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The Devils Own Chariot
Active member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
How do I know what you just wrote above is not copy and pasted again? Claim your source!
JK, anything on a forum should not be considered 100% fact. This forum is better than others but there is a lot of statements that are not credible. There are a few things I wrote on here that turned out not correct. No worries.
How do I know what you just wrote above is not copy and pasted again? Claim your source!
JK, anything on a forum should not be considered 100% fact. This forum is better than others but there is a lot of statements that are not credible. There are a few things I wrote on here that turned out not correct. No worries.
turbodig
Active member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
You gotta be kidding me.
90% of the stuff that gets posted on this board as solutions, ideas or thoughts is stuff that came from other people who posted it before. *None* of it attributed to source.
Much of what is attributed here as *gospel fact* is stuff that was read elsewhere. Almost no one here does their own research, their own findings. It's the way the new "Google Mindset" works.
In fact, Mojo's information has run contrary enough to the "conventional wisdom" to make it quite believable as original material.
The guy was offering you some very good advice, from his experience and research. And you decide to call him out on where that info comes from?
Either take the guys advice, or don't. I found some very useful nuggets of info within this thread, ones that I plan to use on future builds. And, if my swiss-cheese memory remembers, I will credit the source.
You gotta be kidding me.
90% of the stuff that gets posted on this board as solutions, ideas or thoughts is stuff that came from other people who posted it before. *None* of it attributed to source.
Much of what is attributed here as *gospel fact* is stuff that was read elsewhere. Almost no one here does their own research, their own findings. It's the way the new "Google Mindset" works.
In fact, Mojo's information has run contrary enough to the "conventional wisdom" to make it quite believable as original material.
The guy was offering you some very good advice, from his experience and research. And you decide to call him out on where that info comes from?
Either take the guys advice, or don't. I found some very useful nuggets of info within this thread, ones that I plan to use on future builds. And, if my swiss-cheese memory remembers, I will credit the source.
The Devils Own Chariot
Active member
![Quickstop [UK]](/data/avatars/m/5/5165.jpg?1570199786){kind=avatar}
Quickstop [UK]
Combating adversyty.
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
So where is your diagnosis/build at?
So where is your diagnosis/build at?
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
Concerning main bearing failures on the LB4 engine prior to 1992.
" Technical Service Bulletin"
"1. Install a check valve oil filter
(Note: A Chevrolet V6/V8 engine was originally equipped with a 11 PSID by-pass valve in the block. Oil filters used in engines equipped with a bypass valve in the block do not have a check valve.)
2. Change oil, use synbthetic oil.
If an LB4 (4.3L V6) or a LO5 (5.7L V8) engine continues to exhibit short duration cold knock after performing steps one and two and accumulating at least 200 miles, call the appropriate marketing division technical assistance group."
The above is the recommendation the TSB outlined in order to make an temporary effort to reduce the problems associated with main bearing failures in those engines that do not have main bearing priority oiling and have oil coolers.
In 1993, GM started using a oil pump with a 3/4" inlet and pick up assembly in the L35 and LB4 V6 and LO5 V8 engines, along with a 21 PSID bypass valve (GM 25014612) in the block above the oil filter cavity. This was done reduce main bearing failures and warranty problems. The GM Goodwrench rebuilt crate engines are equipped with the 21 PSID bypass valve even if the engine will be used without an oil cooler.That is because oil filters for the 4.3L V6 engines do not have a bypass valve.
Re: AERA Technical Committee: 1987-1997 GM 4.3L VIN B, N,R, W and Z engines with oil cooler..
PSID Differential pressure: The difference in oil pressure between the pump side of the oil filter compared to the oil pressure on down stream side of the oil filter. The 21 PSID rating of the new bypass valve compared to the 11 PSID bypass valve will allow more oil to be filtered before the bypass opens. A higher differential pressure is important on those engines equipped with oil coolers and especially those engines equipped with oil coolers and remote oil filter assemblies.
Concerning main bearing failures on the LB4 engine prior to 1992.
" Technical Service Bulletin"
"1. Install a check valve oil filter
(Note: A Chevrolet V6/V8 engine was originally equipped with a 11 PSID by-pass valve in the block. Oil filters used in engines equipped with a bypass valve in the block do not have a check valve.)
2. Change oil, use synbthetic oil.
If an LB4 (4.3L V6) or a LO5 (5.7L V8) engine continues to exhibit short duration cold knock after performing steps one and two and accumulating at least 200 miles, call the appropriate marketing division technical assistance group."
The above is the recommendation the TSB outlined in order to make an temporary effort to reduce the problems associated with main bearing failures in those engines that do not have main bearing priority oiling and have oil coolers.
In 1993, GM started using a oil pump with a 3/4" inlet and pick up assembly in the L35 and LB4 V6 and LO5 V8 engines, along with a 21 PSID bypass valve (GM 25014612) in the block above the oil filter cavity. This was done reduce main bearing failures and warranty problems. The GM Goodwrench rebuilt crate engines are equipped with the 21 PSID bypass valve even if the engine will be used without an oil cooler.That is because oil filters for the 4.3L V6 engines do not have a bypass valve.
Re: AERA Technical Committee: 1987-1997 GM 4.3L VIN B, N,R, W and Z engines with oil cooler..
PSID Differential pressure: The difference in oil pressure between the pump side of the oil filter compared to the oil pressure on down stream side of the oil filter. The 21 PSID rating of the new bypass valve compared to the 11 PSID bypass valve will allow more oil to be filtered before the bypass opens. A higher differential pressure is important on those engines equipped with oil coolers and especially those engines equipped with oil coolers and remote oil filter assemblies.
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The Devils Own Chariot
Active member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
I talked with Jason today from Morreto Motorsportz. He siad my metal in the pan was just a tore up distributor gear. The bearings look good for the most part. YES!
No wonder I was having a tuning nighmare for awhile. The distributor was slipping. WOW
I talked with Jason today from Morreto Motorsportz. He siad my metal in the pan was just a tore up distributor gear. The bearings look good for the most part. YES!
No wonder I was having a tuning nighmare for awhile. The distributor was slipping. WOW
The Devils Own Chariot
Active member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
They are going to tune the motor on E85 also. So few guys running it. Hard to start from scratch. The engine dyno is a huge tool. With all the debri you still have to tear down and clean. Check everything out. I might have them do a few more upgrades since the unknown expense is out the window. Like you said its in good hands and they know what makes power.
Question is why was the gear all tore up?
They are going to tune the motor on E85 also. So few guys running it. Hard to start from scratch. The engine dyno is a huge tool. With all the debri you still have to tear down and clean. Check everything out. I might have them do a few more upgrades since the unknown expense is out the window. Like you said its in good hands and they know what makes power.
Question is why was the gear all tore up?
Windedv6
Ty n 10s
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
Back in the original post you said you had goldish flakes. Where you running a bronze gear? I have seen slight wear on stock gears over time, but not anything to that would up up in the oil. Bronze gears need to be replace often as they will wear. They are use with billet cam, because you shouldn't run a cast (stock) gear with a billet cam. There is a composite gear out now that most everyone runs instead of the bronze gear, but it is not needed with stock type cast cams.
John
Back in the original post you said you had goldish flakes. Where you running a bronze gear? I have seen slight wear on stock gears over time, but not anything to that would up up in the oil. Bronze gears need to be replace often as they will wear. They are use with billet cam, because you shouldn't run a cast (stock) gear with a billet cam. There is a composite gear out now that most everyone runs instead of the bronze gear, but it is not needed with stock type cast cams.
John
Ty 1885
New member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
That is the problem that i had. The f***ing machine shop in Venice Florida.
After taking it apart, my mains were spun. The caps were just walking side to side about 0.050. That explaned why they did not charge me for assembly.
That is the problem that i had. The f***ing machine shop in Venice Florida.
After taking it apart, my mains were spun. The caps were just walking side to side about 0.050. That explaned why they did not charge me for assembly.
The Devils Own Chariot
Active member
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
I was running the gear that was original. Must have been a bronze gear. This was also not slight wear. Its basically gone. That explains my tuning troubles and how nothing was making sense.
I was running the gear that was original. Must have been a bronze gear. This was also not slight wear. Its basically gone. That explains my tuning troubles and how nothing was making sense.
Re: Engine Bearings Gone
Hey Mojo.
Do you have any pics of where exactly this "forgotten plug" is or should be? I'm looking at the oil passages but not sure where exactly it's supposed to be. Would greatly appreciate your help.
Hey Mojo.
Do you have any pics of where exactly this "forgotten plug" is or should be? I'm looking at the oil passages but not sure where exactly it's supposed to be. Would greatly appreciate your help.