Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

[Mario65]

I ran around and heated up the truck to test my old oil leak. All was fine until I came back to the garage and the engine died. I thought it might be the pump so I hit the switch on the second pump and it ran fine. Checked the factory fuel pump relay and it made no difference. The ecm fuses look fine.

Once it cooled down it ran again. It heated up and it died again. Any thoughts?

I do believe (installed before I got it) it has a walbro in tank pump with the separate harness and relay.

I did have a Walbro die on me after 2 months on one of my T/A's so I wont be surprised if the Walbro is crapping out.

Just wondering if there something that the ECM is doing.

Too tired today but where would you look?

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I'm betting the pump is bad. They usually quit when they heat up. Only other suggesion is that the fuel filter could be clogged up a little and its causing the pump to build up excess heat in order to move fuel around. I would still lean more towards the pump has reached the end of its life.

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I'm betting the pump is bad. They usually quit when they heat up. Only other suggesion is that the fuel filter could be clogged up a little and its causing the pump to build up excess heat in order to move fuel around. I would still lean more towards the pump has reached the end of its life.

I have read alot about Walbros.
They can go at anytime. Can you imagine having only one of these and have it crap out under boost? BOOM!!!
Glad I have 2 pumps and believe its the way to go.
I had one crap out on an ls1 real early and this one has maybe 2-3k miles?
I did also see that they can crap out when they get warm.
This one seems to idle ok until the engine gets hot then the pressure drops and it stalls.
If I hit the Bosch inline it starts right up and runs fine.

I want to get it hot and see if the oil pressure guage gets strange so I can rule out the oil pressure switch.

Found this HOWTO its much better than any other I have seen.

Doesnt look like fun.

http://turbojimmy.4t.com/tytank.html

 

[Upgrade]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

ecm doesn't do anything special other than off or on. You could in theory be losing that pin on the ecm. It happens but not frequently since all it has to do is cycle the relay. I don't know if syty's can turn the pump on from the aldl connector but I'd imagine they do. Just hook two slots togethor with a paper clip or monitor fuel pressure. Swap filters first to see if the problem goes away. Then swap pumps if that's it since it's probably hurt

 

[BoostedSUV]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

When the pump craps out try jumping the test connector at the firewall. That way you will know if it's the pump for sure. If it turns back on you might need to look elsewhere for the problem. Also are you sure it's a true Walbro pump? I know I've read that there were cheap imitations out there that were crapping out early in their life.

 

[AutoVation]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Any updates? I think my second Walbro in a year has crapped out. Hot day yesterday and I was out driving when the Syclone died. Pulled over and I heard what sounds like a "death whine" from the fuel pump.

It's at the dealer this morning, they started it up and its run 30 minutes so far with no issues and no strange sounds. Ugh, this is a PITA.

In the last year, I've lost the stock Delphi pump and now 2 Walbro's. Maybe something else is going on.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Did you put in a real walbro?
http://www.fuel-pumps.net/walbro-forgeries.html

 

[AutoVation]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Did you put in a real walbro?
http://www.fuel-pumps.net/walbro-forgeries.html

I ordered mine from the fuel pump guru guy who is the SyTy owner (Bought from APE, aka Ron Gregory).

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I spoke to Ron and he said the pump he carries is manufactured after the issue with Walbro during 2008.
I dont know exactly whats in mine. I will find out in a couple of days. I didnt install it. Mine dies when it gets warm like yours. ITs also the same problem Ron at APE said was the problem with the bad Walbros. I have an older version that I had left over from a GN I never used. It has a manufacture date of 2004.

The more I read on these from various sites the more I am convinced you need to do a careful install making sure you have an excellent ground with good hoses:
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61132

There are alot of people having multiple failures too. I wonder about line restrictions, return lines, filters.

It seems like another PITA.

I have a GM tech friend who will install it for 50-100. (he probably doesnt know what he's in for) I dont know what to do. Ill crawl up under today and see where to go next.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

The only thing I'd be worried about during the install is obviously cleaning the ground because the pump won't run without a good ground but also make sure you don't kink the feed line.

It's easy to do and will cause a world of head aches I imagine. Im in the middle of doing a pump install now in my syclone. The pump I pulled out of the truck was a walbro 255 but the serial number started with gss and had a big off set feed hole at the bottom. I found that Walbro in 04 stopped this design and replaced it with one with a smaller inlet positioned in the middle rather then offset to save cost on machining and gave it a different serial number one without the gss at the beginning.

My pump hanger was toasted, couldn't get it off without breaking off the hard lines so I had to replace them but opted to replace the feed line with -6an braided line so I never have to worry about it getting kinked or rust again so when you buddy digs into dropping that take you may need to be replacing a few parts fyi

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

The only thing I'd be worried about during the install is obviously cleaning the ground because the pump won't run without a good ground but also make sure you don't kink the feed line.

It's easy to do and will cause a world of head aches I imagine. Im in the middle of doing a pump install now in my syclone. The pump I pulled out of the truck was a walbro 255 but the serial number started with gss and had a big off set feed hole at the bottom. I found that Walbro in 04 stopped this design and replaced it with one with a smaller inlet positioned in the middle rather then offset to save cost on machining and gave it a different serial number one without the gss at the beginning.

My pump hanger was toasted, couldn't get it off without breaking off the hard lines so I had to replace them but opted to replace the feed line with -6an braided line so I never have to worry about it getting kinked or rust again so when you buddy digs into dropping that take you may need to be replacing a few parts fyi

I think the offset one was the troubled piece that came later. If it has a part #like f20000169. Thats the one. Under that number directly is a 5 digit number. The first 3 are the day of the year it was made and the last two is the year. Mine is 03504 which means an 04 pump made on the 35th day.

 

[AutoVation]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Dealer confirmed the Walbro pump is bad. :rant: Constant voltage was run to the pump and the fuel pressure steadily decreased. This is the 2nd Walbro pump to go bad on me. Is 3rd time the charm or what other options are there at this time? I left a message for Ron Gregory a few hours ago, just waiting on his return call now.

 

[SYO237]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Mario, it really isnt a hard thing to do to drop the tank....your making it like its a nightmare :rotf: Just make sure you disconnect everything (theres 3 screws on the filler neck behind the door everyone forgets) and just pull it down slow until you can get your hands up on the top of the tank and get the fuel lines loose and off.

I my ex-royal's in an apartment parking lot....its not that bad of a job.

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I looked at it yesterday and I agree with you it cant be that hard.

I'll pull the bumper and tear it down in the morning.

Have you seen a good step by step to work in the tank properly? Seal, lines , etc?

 

[SYO237]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Theres a ring you have to turn that holds down the sending unit into the tank, the seal is under it. the entire fuel sending unit comes out as a whole...just need to angle it around to get the float out as well.

Its cake man...trust me.

Heres some reference pics when I did Gary's in Miami:

http://www.sytyarchives.com/gallery/v/events/miami07/

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I think the offset one was the troubled piece that came later. If it has a part #like f20000169. Thats the one. Under that number directly is a 5 digit number. The first 3 are the day of the year it was made and the last two is the year. Mine is 03504 which means an 04 pump made on the 35th day.

No the one I had in my truck was the GSS242 18997-1 which had the big offset inlet on it and from reading was discontinued to save on tooling cost. They switched to the center inlet whole design because it fit more applications without issue and required less machining on the pumps thus saving them manufacturing moneys.

They replaced the GSS242 18997-1 in 2004 with the F20000169 02309-1 model (center inlet)


and I agree the fuel pump r&r isn't hard at all once you get the bed up or drop the tank. The hard part is not twisting or snapping the fragile and most likely rusted fuel lines on then sender/hanger assembly.

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

No the one I had in my truck was the GSS242 18997-1 which had the big offset inlet on it and from reading was discontinued to save on tooling cost. They switched to the center inlet whole design because it fit more applications without issue and required less machining on the pumps thus saving them manufacturing moneys.

They replaced the GSS242 18997-1 in 2004 with the F20000169 02309-1 model (center inlet)


and I agree the fuel pump r&r isn't hard at all once you get the bed up or drop the tank. The hard part is not twisting or snapping the fragile and most likely rusted fuel lines on then sender/hanger assembly.

Actually this pick is says some of your info is right but not all. The new one is the F part but it is offset.

 

[Mario65]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

I did change a 2006 "F" Id for a 2004 "F" id pump. It runs fine but WOT will always be accompanied by the bosch pump. No blown motor because of a crappy walbro pump.

It wasnt hard at all to change the pump. The truck had the tank off twice before from what I can tell and it only had 13k miles and was from Cali. No chance of rust. maybe 3 hours and I took my time and cleaned out the tank.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Actually this pick is says some of your info is right but not all. The new one is the F part but it is offset.

I believe i assumed wrong... The picture shows the GSS340 pumps which mine was the GSS242 pump. The GSS340 version is the high pressure 255 where as mine is the standard 255 it seems. So that would explain why my replacement F2 pump has a center inlet where as the F2 high pressure still has the offset inlet.

Sorry about teh confusion there.


Could you shoot me some info on your bosch pump setup and install if at all possible? I was pondering the idea of running an external pump but wasn't sure of what all was involved with the tank and all.

 

[AutoVation]

Re: Fuel pump craps out when the engine is warm

Dealer confirmed the Walbro pump is bad. :rant: Constant voltage was run to the pump and the fuel pressure steadily decreased. This is the 2nd Walbro pump to go bad on me. Is 3rd time the charm or what other options are there at this time? I left a message for Ron Gregory a few hours ago, just waiting on his return call now.

I never received a return call from Auto Performance Engineering regarding my issue with a non-working Walbro. I ended up ordering another one directly from Racetronix since I was putting in their wire harness as well. They had it shipped out the same day. It has been installed and the Sy is up and running again. :tup:

I'm reading about the $40 I'm supposed to send to have Walbro investigate whether they will refund me $100 for the pump. It looks like that policy may not apply per this information on their website:

November 2008

Walbro engineering has resolved the F20000169 fuel pump problem. We have a supply of the new F20000169 pumps in stock.

October 2008

Walbro engineering has discovered the problem with the F20000169 fuel pumps. They are getting the parts to fix the problem. The warehouse should have the pumps by the middle of November. Then, they'll have to ship them to the distributors. We should get more of those pumps by the end of November.

All F20000169 pumps that are returned will be tested. In the past, Walbro has had over 98 percent of returned pumps run on the test bench as OKAY. Not all pumps will have the problem. Any pumps that are tested to be OKAY will be returned to you. This is NOT an across-the-board recall as far as I know.

Walbro engineering is trying to identify a timeframe when the problem parts got into production pumps. As far as they can tell, any pump manufactured before the 2nd quarter 2008 should be okay. If your manufacture date is before that, they currently don't have a clear reason to swap it out.

September 2008

We have been hearing of a greater than normal number of pump failures in the F20000169 pumps. They aren't all failing. We normally hear of 1 in every 1000 or so pumps with an issue; we're now seeing 1 in every 100 or so F20000169 pumps with a problem.

Since the GSS340, GSS341, GSS342, and F0000169 pumps all have the same internals, Walbro has been focusing its research on the white, plastic inlet piece on the bottom of the pump.

So... until this problem is resolved, APE will not be selling the F20000169 fuel pumps.