Primer For cladding

[wildphil]

I would like to see what others are using. I checked on some primer with the flex additive today and the cost for a quart is $58. The guy at the paint supply place told me. That if I bought a gallon on primer then put a flex additive it. That it would cost $260 to go that route.

I was hoping someone knew of a place to buy this stuff cheaper. Also any tips on the priming and painting of my cladding would be great.

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

Phil: In case you missed it, I posted about my experience painting the cladding on my two Typhoons in my Back in the Game thread. Check it out, here. This post covers color coats.

Regarding primers, I begin with a thorough sand and prime with DP40 epoxy primer. If there are any NEW un-painted parts, I use a very light mist coat of "Bulldog" adhesion promoter on the raw plastic just prior to the DP40. I then use NCP280 which is a hi-build, 2-part epoxy primer, and sand that out to 500 to remove any fine pits and road rash. Particularly on high-mileage rockers. I do NOT subscribe to using, or recommending the use of "flexitives" or flex agents in epoxy primer. Or in any other part of the process, for that matter. It's not necessary on parts that don't 'flex' after they're installed (like cladding) and it degrades the paint's resistance to UV degradation. I'm pretty sure the paint manufacturers don't recommend the use of flexitives in primers either. Might want to research this further. And yes, this material is through-the-roof expensive now. I'm over $750 in material alone on the project below.

I am currently working on the cladding for GoodSy. It will be a low-gloss black. I'm using WA858 for the color, and the same 2021/2061 clear coat mix for low gloss. Here's some pics with it in the NCP 280 primer: Amazing how it fills the shop when it's not on the truck. Good luck with your project.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Primer For cladding

Thanks for the info Dave. I will look into these products. Three pieces of cladding were broken or cracked. I have them repaired for the most part. The rest of the cladding I am just repainting to be sure that the argent matches on all the cladding. I thought that it would be best to sand all the pieces down to raw material. It sure would be a lot easier if I didn't though.

You already have $750 tied up in material on your cladding project. WOW! I am supprised that these materials are so expensive.

I will look at your post on the painting of cladding also.

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

If the existing color coats are in decent condition, ie not peeling, you don't have to sand to the base material. Just sand thoroughly. Mix the DP40 with (I believe, read the product sheet) 25% DT reducer to mix it as a sealer. Spray your first coat with this "sealer" mix. If you get excessive lifting around heavily-sanded spots, let it dry overnight and gently sand these rough spots with 280-320. Prime again with Normal DP40. If the surface is in very good condition, and you can sand to 400-500 with surface imperfections within your acceptance, you don't have to do the NCP hi-build step. You can color-coat right over the DP40. I used the NCP on the Sy because it was heavily pitted, and I needed some film-build to fill the rough surfaces.

DP40 is incredible stuff. It seems to adhere to any surface I've put it on. It flows nicely right out of the gun, and sands easily enough if you don't let it sit for a year before you get back to it. And the projects I've used it on still look great 10+ years later.

Good Luck.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Primer For cladding

I have been searching for the materials you suggested online Dave. I haven't found NCP250 for sale yet.


Edit: I found a couple of places in Nashville that sell PPG paint. I will see if they can get the materials for me.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Primer For cladding

Here's another DaveP paint job. This is DP40 right over the sanded gelcoat, which was a very badly deteriorated flake. Lots of sanding. Then PPG Deltron Acrylic Urethane over the DP40. Shot outdoors, no booth, no color-sanding or buffing was ever done. In this pic, the paint is 17 years old. It's held up incredibly well. I bring this up as a testimony to how well DP40 sticks to substrates. Which is what destroys many paint projects. They begin to peel.

Interesting. The '76 Glastron we have at the lake has a 70s brown flake (Think "Live and let die") that's really starting to get bad on the edges. Might have to give this a try.

I'd actually like the keep the heavy sparkle flake - it's kind of a period piece. I'm guessing you can't get that in Deltron.

Apologies for the threadjack...

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

I have been searching for the materials you suggested online Dave. I haven't found NCP250 for sale yet.


Edit: I found a couple of places in Nashville that sell PPG paint. I will see if they can get the materials for me.

OK. I tried to do this from memory, and led you astray. Sorry. It's NCP 280. I'll edit my stuff above. Sorry.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Primer For cladding

Dave, I did a little shopping online for these PPG products. Here is a list of the primers and activators that I think are needed. I am also listing the advertised prices. Please look at my list and see if it looks correct to you. Do I need to get a less amount of any of these products. I am unsure of the reducer to be used. But suspect it is one of these, DT860 cool temp urethane reducer. DT870 medium temp, or DT885 warm temp urethane reducer.

1 gal DPLF Epoxy Primer $161,25
1 qt. DP401LF Activator $48.25
1 gal. NCP280 Primer Surfacer $194.75
1 qt. NCX285 Activator $60.25


I can't wait to see what the price of the paint.

 

[JSM]

Re: Primer For cladding

You shouldn't need a gallon of DP IMO for just the cladding. Damn stuff will double in weight. DP should be sprayed as a sealer not a buildup type.

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

Dave, I did a little shopping online for these PPG products. Here is a list of the primers and activators that I think are needed. I am also listing the advertised prices. Please look at my list and see if it looks correct to you. Do I need to get a less amount of any of these products. I am unsure of the reducer to be used. But suspect it is one of these, DT860 cool temp urethane reducer. DT870 medium temp, or DT885 warm temp urethane reducer.

1 gal DPLF Epoxy Primer $161,25
1 qt. DP401LF Activator $48.25
1 gal. NCP280 Primer Surfacer $194.75
1 qt. NCX285 Activator $60.25


I can't wait to see what the price of the paint.

I have accomplished all my cladding projects with "quart kits" of the listed / recommended materials. Ie, the DP is mixed 2:2:1 as a sealer, and 1:1 as a primer, so you get 2 qts of RTS primer from a quart of DP NCP is 2:1. Colors will be the same. A qt of color or clear after it's mixed gives more than enough RTS (ready to spray) for a set of cladding.

I use an old-school high pressure Devilbiss siphon-gun. It wastes a lot of material in the form of over-spray. If you use a HVLP gun, your material usage will be significantly less than mine is. And I get away with quarts.

Yes, the DT reducers are used for both DP and NCP thinning. I use hardware-store Lacquer thinner for gun-cleaning. DT870 is fine for general purpose priming and color coats. It's all I use, but I never paint in high temperatures where I would need a 'slower' reducer. If it's cold in your shop, put all the parts and paint material out overnight. Turn on the heater, come back in the morning, and begin your painting. Try to have all the materials and parts at the same temperature, but never colder than the minimum temp recommended range for the reducer.

I would hold off on purchasing the NCP until you're certain you need it. You may be satisfied with the results of just the DP. I've only needed NCP on the Syclone. Because many parts were heavily pitted from high mileage on winter roads. I needed more film build to sand down to fill the pits than just the DP provides. DP does not have high film build. About 1-1.5 mils per coat. A double coat will result in about 2.5mil thickness. That's not a lot, but enough if the parts are smooth before the primer. DP lays out so well that I've often been tempted to put the color right over it without a final sanding. I'm sure some production shops do. I always sand to at least 400.

You're getting the hang of it. It's expensive.

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

DP should be sprayed as a sealer not a buildup type.

It can be used either way. You're right in that DP is not a "build up type" of primer. Primers are to promote adhesion between the substrate and the color. DP is exceptional in this regard. As a sealer, you add 1/4 the volume of the already mixed primer/catalyst to reduce it to a sealer. Using as a sealer if effective if you feel some of the existing color coats may 'lift' or bleed.

Here is the Product Sheet for DP products. Read and understand it Phil.

I rarely use the 402 catalyst. It doesn't require the 30 minute induction period the 401 does, and some of the re-coat times are shorter, but this is generally not a concern in a hobby-shop environment. We're not in a hurry. I have never been disappointed with the 401 mixture. But I always do the 30-minute wait as the directions stipulate.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Primer For cladding

Thank for your responses guys. I'm glad to hear that it will take less material than I had thought. This info is very helpful. And thanks for this link Dave. I studied it but also saved it to my favorites. So I can refer to it when needed.

This is the first time that I have tried to refinish plastic parts. About thirty years ago I did body work and painted a few cars. I'm still not to bad with repairing this stuff. But on painting. The materians seem to be different. I bought a HVLP paint gun that I need to learn how to operate. I'll have to go slow and probably do a little practice painting. I would like to not screw it up. But I do want to do this project myself.

 

[DaveP]

Re: Primer For cladding

Thank for your responses guys. ........ About thirty years ago I did body work and painted a few cars. ....... But I do want to do this project myself.

You'll be fine. I didn't realize you had some experience. Be patient, as you know. You can always sand it, and shoot again, although the material costs make mistakes a LOT more expensive then they were 30 years ago.

I hear you on "doing it yourself". Not only does it save labor cost, but there's the satisfaction of knowing "I did that" every time you look at it.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Primer For cladding

You'll be fine. I didn't realize you had some experience. Be patient, as you know. You can always sand it, and shoot again, although the material costs make mistakes a LOT more expensive then they were 30 years ago.

I hear you on "doing it yourself". Not only does it save labor cost, but there's the satisfaction of knowing "I did that" every time you look at it.

I'll leave you with this as my parting post in your thread. This is by far and away my most satisfying paint project. By 1992 I had owned this 1970 Weiman 15 years, but it had deteriorated to the point it wasn't worth the gas to haul it to the dump. Over the course of 5 weeks, working on weekends at my buddies shop, and evenings in my apartment car-port, I transformed the carcass into what you see here for about $2,500, of which $1,200 was the upholstery work, total expense. I expected to get at most, a couple of years of use from the effort. 20 years later, I still ski behind it every summer. It looks pretty good and draws compliments from aficionados of 40 year old jet boats like myself. Your project will be the same. DaveP

That is a fine lookin boat. You did a great job on it and I'm sure you are proud of the work you have done. I know that I sure would be.