Torque Converter Help

[MAK]

I will be buying a new torque converter soon, 2800 stall, and I see many options. Hughes, Coan, TCI, Meziere, etc.....so many choices.

I have researched the hell out of this but still do not know what to specify or look for when buying one. I have read through countless threads on here but am still not sure as to which one I should go with.

My 93 Typhoon is mostly stock with a Velosyty chip (just arrived), 20g/14cm turbo (being refurbished right now), MSD ignition, 3" cat back exhaust, and RPM CAI. I drive the TY lightly but still like to have fun with it. Boost launches are rare but do happen....

If someone has ordered or bought a TC recently and has a build similar to mine, please chime in with the brand, part number, and specifications you used. This will help me figure out what I need to look for. Getting the right one the first time is what I am shooting for.

Thanks.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Your wasting your money IMO, I run a 14cm 20g on a stock TC and spool mad fast like a stocker. Change the wastegate instead. Your going to make it slower with a 2800-3000TC

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Your wasting your money IMO, I run a 14cm 20g on a stock TC and spool mad fast like a stocker. Change the wastegate instead. Your going to make it slower with a 2800-3000TC

As posted on another thread, the reason I am getting a new TC is because it is not acting right. Many people on here have recommended I go with the 2800 because of the 20g/14cm and they say the a SY/TY with a 20g/14cm and stock converter is "a dog". I am a little confused as to why everyone would not just go with the wastegate if that was all it needed. It would sure save a lot of time and money, if that was the case.

 

[TYHOGG]

Re: Torque Converter Help

You need the stall, i ran a 14cm 20g for years. It was really lagy. 2800-3000 stall is instant boost.

I run a TCI, it was good for a mostly stock truck, mine has started to whine now and will be replaced. Most likly with one from The Converter Shop.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

You cant just assume everything that everyone tells you is correct. For instance if someone told you that your brake rotor's could be causing a vibration while driving without applying the brakes. Would you just go out and buy new brake rotor's and waste your time replacing the ones that you have?

If you have doubt of someones opinion or experiance, ask questions.


I want to know why you assume there is a problem with your stock TC? Please explain?

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

You need the stall, i ran a 14cm 20g for years. It was really lagy. 2800-3000 stall is instant boost.

I run a TCI, it was good for a mostly stock truck, mine has started to whine now and will be replaced. Most likly with one from The Converter Shop.

He does? Do you have timeslips proving how much faster it went with a 2800TC?

What wastegate where you running with your 20g? Chip/tune?

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

You cant just assume everything that everyone tells you is correct. For instance if someone told you that your brake rotor's could be causing a vibration while driving without applying the brakes. Would you just go out and buy new brake rotor's and waste your time replacing the ones that you have?

If you have doubt of someones opinion or experiance, ask questions.


I want to know why you assume there is a problem with your stock TC? Please explain?

I do have common sense. If everyone jumped off of a building, would I? Hell no. All I am saying is that there are many forum members that seem to have tried other options and the majority have said to go with a 2800-3000 stall TC. I do ask questions and that is the answer I got. I have to trust in their experience. It beats the hell out of doing it all blindly. That is a waste of time and money, for sure.

As for my TC, the shifting is firm but erratic, step on the gas going 65 and it kicks down for a second and goes into OD at very low RPM's, shift points are off...that sort of thing. The transmission shows no other signs of being worn out. There is no slippage. Could be something else? Sure, that is possible. The TV cable has been checked, to rule that out. I am up for more suggestions also. If I did not have to change the stock TC, that would be wonderful. Money in my pocket (for other parts, of course).

Trial and error is a luxury I can not afford. Three kids, swing shifts, snowy roads, the nearest track is at least a three hour drive.....the list goes on. I am trying to avoid that. This is why I research everything and go with what seems to be the best route.

 

[5678TA]

Re: Torque Converter Help

i'll chime in. i agree with both parties. I'm on the stock converter and 20g/14cm2 and get good spool time. there is a slight lag from stock but nothing i cant deal with. and i have the stock 20g actuator. i'm running the AEM Truboost and i see 13.5-14psi at 45% DC. when i increase the DC to 60%, i go up to 17psi. once i get the turbo spinning, boost ramps up instantly and hits just as hard as stock.

0966sy, i'm not doubting your experience or expertise but have you experienced the before and after, with and without the higher stall converter and forge actuator?? i find it hard to say that someone is wasting money going to a higher stall converter regardless of the wastegate actuator. dont you think the stock actuator vs the forge should produce similar results up to the stock boost level of the stock actuator?? the way i see it is that they are both gonna be closed from vacuum to 10psi. there should be no change in either up to the rated boost level of the actuator. above 10psi, sure the forge unit should help continue spool speed up to its rated level. all in all, the wastegate actuator should not affect anything up to 10psi. a good boost controller will take care of anything higher than that.

the main issue is not people having difficulty making high boost numbers, it's people are trying to reduce their initial wait time to get into boost. the only way that is going to change is with a higher stall converter or smaller exhaust housing.

i doubt much people have slowed down when going from a stock converter to a 2800 stall with a 20g/14cm2. the only slowing factor i foresee is traction. the 2800 stall puts the engine higher into its torque curve. you're basically saying you should launch a high rpm stick car at idle because its faster. (extreme case, but you get the idea)

so as i understand this, yes, a converter will help spool speed and yes, a forge gate will help maintain spool up to the higher boost levels. when combined, instant full boost.


and if i am wrong, i apologize and please correct me. I am not an expert, nor do i have much experience with auto's or turbo's for that matter. what i expressed is what is logical to me.

 

[Syclone#2960]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Your wasting your money IMO, I run a 14cm 20g on a stock TC and spool mad fast like a stocker. Change the wastegate instead. Your going to make it slower with a 2800-3000TC

Yup rode in his ty a few nights ago...fast spool up indeed.:tup:

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

As for my TC, the shifting is firm but erratic, step on the gas going 65 and it kicks down for a second and goes into OD at very low RPM's, shift points are off...that sort of thing. The transmission shows no other signs of being worn out. There is no slippage. Could be something else? Sure, that is possible. The TV cable has been checked, to rule that out.

What do you mean firm but erratic? What is erratic, shifting? what gear? Is OD working as it should at 45mph in 4th? Does it dissangage and engage as it should with brake application? Have you performed a stall test?
Hold the brake with your left foot lightly as you would at a stoplight in drive. With your right foot raise the engine RPM, when the truck wants to start moving forward through the brake at what RPM is your stall speed. A stock truck should yeild near 2200 RPM. How old is the Trans? Any history? Fluid condition?

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

0966SY, would this wastegate work even better in conjunction with a 2800-3000 stall or the stocker? It seems like a new TC is needed anyway so it is getting changed, regardless. You obviously are experienced and know what you are talking about so I will certainly heed your advice as well.

So back to the topic - specifications and part numbers for "tried and true" torque converters (stock stall or 2800) for my current modifications? Anyone?

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

What do you mean firm but erratic? What is erratic, shifting? what gear? Is OD working as it should at 45mph in 4th? Does it dissangage and engage as it should with brake application? Have you performed a stall test?
Hold the brake with your left foot lightly as you would at a stoplight in drive. With your right foot raise the engine RPM, when the truck wants to start moving forward through the brake at what RPM is your stall speed. A stock truck should yeild near 2200 RPM. How old is the Trans? Any history? Fluid condition?

It does go into OD when it should under normal acceleration. No stall test. When I get it back from the shop I will test it and note the RPM's when it starts to move. Unfortunately I do not know how old the transmission is, nor does the previous owner. The fluid levels looked okay the last time I checked. I will check them again.

Oh, and the erratic shifting is between DRIVE and OD. DRIVE seems to shift quickly into OD, as well as the quick shift back into OD after stomping it at highway speeds.

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

0966sy, i'm not doubting your experience or expertise but have you experienced the before and after, with and without the higher stall converter and forge actuator?? i find it hard to say that someone is wasting money going to a higher stall converter regardless of the wastegate actuator. dont you think the stock actuator vs the forge should produce similar results up to the stock boost level of the stock actuator?? the way i see it is that they are both gonna be closed from vacuum to 10psi. there should be no change in either up to the rated boost level of the actuator. above 10psi, sure the forge unit should help continue spool speed up to its rated level. all in all, the wastegate actuator should not affect anything up to 10psi. a good boost controller will take care of anything higher than that.

the main issue is not people having difficulty making high boost numbers, it's people are trying to reduce their initial wait time to get into boost. the only way that is going to change is with a higher stall converter or smaller exhaust housing.

You have answered your own question several times. First of all I have not used a higher stall TC other than stock on my 20g. I have used the stock 20g actuator and the forge unit and that is what increased my spool time from being kinda slow compared to stock to wicked fast like the stocker. I also could not yeild more than 10psi with the 20g actuator.

I dont know how you assume that the actuator is going to be closed from vacuum till 10psi, a wastgate actuator does not use engine vacuum to hold it closed.

The initial wait time you speak of is related to the wastegate begining to open as early as 2-5psi, as soon as it begins to open you are venting exhuast past the turbine thus slowing spool. The same theory is used to control boost level's, thats the wastegate functioning as intended.

The stock 20g actuator I tested when applying pressure with a hand held pump on the bench it would begin to open at 5psi, the stock wastegate would open as early as 2psi. My forge gate does not begin to open untill 13-14psi on the bench. This allow's the full amount of exhuast to reach the turbine resulting in faster spool up.

People see the results with faster spool up on a 20g with a 2800TC becuase your increasing the amount of exhaust that spools the turbine with RPM. IMO you are loosing valuble rpm powerband a stock engine is known for. Espeacially on the street, you will loose mpg as well. Simply put, a 2800TC is NOT matched for a 20g.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Torque converters are an art. While it is easy to say "install brand x converter" or "use this stall", the truth is that you need to work with a good company that will build a converter based on your build.

The best thing you can do is get some track or dyno data and start talking to a converter company. There is a TON of power/e.t. you are leaving on the table otherwise.

Good luck!

-Q

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Oh, and the erratic shifting is between DRIVE and OD. DRIVE seems to shift quickly into OD, as well as the quick shift back into OD after stomping it at highway speeds.

Do you mean your shifting it from D to OD on the shifter or letting the transmission shift to OD? You are not going to fall out of OD unless you get a forced downshift based on RPM and vehicle speed. Or if you touch the brake pedal. Sounds to me like your getting a OD shudder.

FYI the vette 700R TC's our the same as ours 2200

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torque Converter Help

I have this company's TC:

http://specriteconverters.com/

Happy with it but like everything else on my Sy I have nothing to compare it to,:roll:

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Erik, you need to send me the info on that wastegate again so I can order one of these next week with my tax$$.

All my R&R with the gate is in the GP thread, and all information to order.

 

[MAK]

Re: Torque Converter Help

Torque converters are an art. While it is easy to say "install brand x converter" or "use this stall", the truth is that you need to work with a good company that will build a converter based on your build.

The best thing you can do is get some track or dyno data and start talking to a converter company. There is a TON of power/e.t. you are leaving on the table otherwise.

Good luck!

-Q

I certainly see your point. That is why I am asking everyone to include the specifications for it. I am trying to educate myself with what has worked for builds similar to mine because I don't have a lot to work with here in North Dakota. It sucks. No dyno's anywhere near here and the tracks are up to 3 hours away and closed most of the year because of the weather. The better I understand what I am looking for the easier it will be to get the one I need.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Torque Converter Help

There is ZERO replacement for YOUR data! You can stuff a 9/11 converter in there and be like most. Or you can do what your particular truck wants. You will likely have two very different results. Mine is not the easy answer, but it is the right one.

Good luck!

 

[0966Sy]

Re: Torque Converter Help

i doubt much people have slowed down when going from a stock converter to a 2800 stall with a 20g/14cm2. the only slowing factor i foresee is traction. the 2800 stall puts the engine higher into its torque curve. you're basically saying you should launch a high rpm stick car at idle because its faster. (extreme case, but you get the idea)

You have to remember the TC decides when to put the power to the ground, not your wheels. A higher stall TC could benifit at the track for a 60ft, a .10th or .2. Nothing worth it unless you require the higher RPM to spool the turbo faster. You will loose mpg and create a dog in 1st gear on the street. Choosing the proper turbo for an engine build, then choosing the proper TC for the Turbo/engine combination. Show me the results from a 2800 TC on a stock truck resulting in faster ET's, anyone?