Running lean all the time

[kessler]

I am using a friends username because I have been trying to register for 3 weeks and cannot. He doesn't have his Ty anymore and i just got one, so-

Here is my problem: truck runs lean all the time. Cruise, idle, boost, cold or warm. Wide band reads 21.3 at idle, 18-19 at cruise and when I try to get into boost, it only gets into the 13s, so I let out.
History on the truck that I know is that it basicly sat for the last 12 years. When I got it there had been a new fuel tank, pump, and filter put in.
I have put in the following new parts:
Walboro 340 in tank pump
Innovate wideband
Cap and rotor- brass contacts
NGK UR5s gapped to .030
10mm plug wires
new stock FPR
New stock MAP
Pro sport boost gauge
O2 sensor

I have checked all the vacuum lines, boost leak tested it and checked fuel pressure.
Boost leak showed leakage at throttle body shaft, fuel pressure was 39 with line disconnected and 45 connected. I manually added pressure to the FPR and pressure goes right up, but AFRs stay at 18-19 at idle.
I am wondering if the injectors are partially clogged, even though I have ran injector cleaner through it several times and even performed the top end cleaning procedure. It has stock red top injectors and is the factory computer and chip. I do have the DataMaster program and have made some logs, but am not sure how to post them. I have searched and searched on this issue, but cannot seem to find the same issue. Any help would be appreciated

 

[92TyLA]

Re: Running lean all the time

I would install an adjustable FPR. base fuel psi should be around 43 with line disconnected (plug line)

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

I have thought about that, but I have also read that base is 38. I did how ever manually increase base pressure, and the truck still idles at 21.9 AFR. I increased it up to 50psi base and there was no change which makes me think the fuel isn't actually getting into the combustion chamber.

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Running lean all the time

Something is wrong with your AFR meter IMO. I've never seen a truck idle much past about 17:1 or so. Typically they start surging pretty badly around 15-16:1 in my experience. Most like to be significantly "fatter" at idle. Does the narrow band "swing", or is it pegged on the lean side as well.

Also, shouldn't the Fuel pressure rise with boost, and fall with vacuum? You have it either written backwards in the first post, or it's not doing something right there as well.

Also possible that there is an exhaust leak upstream of the WBO2, and you're getting fresh air in there with the exhaust gasses.

 

[nello]

Re: Running lean all the time

Something is wrong with your AFR meter IMO. I've never seen a truck idle much past about 17:1 or so. Typically they start surging pretty badly around 15-16:1 in my experience. Most like to be significantly "fatter" at idle. Does the narrow band "swing", or is it pegged on the lean side as well.

Also, shouldn't the Fuel pressure rise with boost, and fall with vacuum? You have it either written backwards in the first post, or it's not doing something right there as well.

Also possible that there is an exhaust leak upstream of the WBO2, and you're getting fresh air in there with the exhaust gasses.

I agree. My brother in-law and I were just talking about a crazy issue we had with his, was mine, Lc-1. Worked okay in my truck, but not good enough, so I put in a plx. He used the lc-1 in his old school mustang, worked great, but then he changed something on it, and never could get it to work right again, even after going back to what originally worked. IMO- toss the lc-1, or pull the sensor and recalibrate it in open air, then try again. GL bro.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Running lean all the time

FP is 43 at idle with the vac line off and should drop with vac line connected due to engine vacuum.
I had an LM 1 and didn't like it - it's a bulky item as well. I went with a PLX in the end.

Did you disconnect injectors one at a time to see which one may not be working? How is the idle overall? Smooth or lumpy? The truck can run lean but on acceleration it will bog and buck.

Is there any knocking when you boost?

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

The wide band is new, and I use them all the time in other vehicles. I actually have one that swaps from car to car that I checked it with as well. Same readings.
As far as fuel pressure, it is 39 with vac line off and plugged. I simulated boost by giving pressure to the port and fuel pressure rises approximately 1 pound per 1 pound of pressure.
In DataMaster, I see a TON of knock and as boost starts to build, I can hear it start to ping, which is when I let out. I see the stock O2 switching from rich to lean, but then it goes to long term 125 and short term 128.
Idle is fairly smooth and as I accelerate, the air fuels will get in the 16s.
I haven't unplugged the injectors yet, but that is a good idea. I was thinking that there could be junk from the old tank and etc that is partially clogging one or some of the injectors.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Running lean all the time

Have you got a compression tester?

Reason I ask is that my friend had a lean running truck and had all sort of weird issues with the AFR. It idled smooth but mileage was poor. It started knocking at low boost. He thought he had a clogged injector so tried to find the lean one. After disconnecting the injectors individually which made no difference to how the truck ran, I suggested a comp check. Turns out he had a gasket blown through between 1 and 3.
Comp check confirmed the issue. 1 and 3 were at 40 psi compression.

Might want to check the injectors side by side. It ran really well with only 4 injectors bizarrely enough. HTH.

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

I do have a tester. And that does make sense as I do get knock at low boost. I will check injectors and do a compression test. Great advice, I appreciate it. I was planning on head work and cam, but wanted it to run correctly before I started getting crazy with the mods. I will update this thread once I find out. Thanks again.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Running lean all the time

What are you using for a chip/tune?

Is your tune running off the wide band signal?

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

It is stock ECM and stock chip

 

[wildphil]

Re: Running lean all the time

I am just guessing this is what you have. If you did away with your narrow band and connected your wide band into your ECM to for your AFR signal. I think you will need to set up your tune for wide band to get the benefit of the wide band. I think you can make it run without a new tune but you would not get the benefit of your wide band. Here is a linnk about wiring a wide band to simulate a narrow band.

I would get what you need to tune and a 3 bar map (so you can go more than stock boost) and use the wide band to get a new tune. For now wire it to work with your stock chip.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/narrowband-replacement.php

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Running lean all the time

Something is wrong with your AFR meter IMO. I've never seen a truck idle much past about 17:1 or so. Typically they start surging pretty badly around 15-16:1 in my experience. Most like to be significantly "fatter" at idle. Does the narrow band "swing", or is it pegged on the lean side as well.

Also, shouldn't the Fuel pressure rise with boost, and fall with vacuum? You have it either written backwards in the first post, or it's not doing something right there as well.

Also possible that there is an exhaust leak upstream of the WBO2, and you're getting fresh air in there with the exhaust gasses.

Agreed. My Syclone barely runs at AFR over 16:1.

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

The wide band is ran to a gauge and is used to monitor the air fuels from the stock tune. It has its own bung and is ran completely separate. I should be able to monitor the stock air fuel mixture without affecting anything. The stock ECM and chip should run correct air fuel numbers, not lean all the time. The fuel is not being delivered to the combustion chambers causing a lean condition, even the stock O2 shows lean. At 10 psi, my injector duty cycle is around 90% as well, and I have tons of knock.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Running lean all the time

The wide band is ran to a gauge and is used to monitor the air fuels from the stock tune. It has its own bung and is ran completely separate. I should be able to monitor the stock air fuel mixture without affecting anything. The stock ECM and chip should run correct air fuel numbers, not lean all the time. The fuel is not being delivered to the combustion chambers causing a lean condition, even the stock O2 shows lean. At 10 psi, my injector duty cycle is around 90% as well, and I have tons of knock.

I was wasn't sure how you were using your wide band so I did some guessing. But I see that I got off track on this one.

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

No problem, I really do appreciate all the suggestions and info. I am trying to provide all the info necessary to get this figured out and sometimes I don't get everything out that needs to be said.

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Running lean all the time

If the stock narrow band sensor is showing lean as well.....then you have a problem elsewhere. I still suspect something who-wack-ed with that wide band though. I might guess a bad ground effecting the reading, 20:1 or so is typically beyond the capabilities of the sensor, as well as being beyond the capabilities of the engine to still idle.

With that said, if the narrow band sensor is still not "swinging" from rich to lean at warm idle, then there is another problem. My first thought is a leak somewhere allowing fresh air into the exhaust system. That's the only way I can think of getting a 20:1 range reading, and the truck still run.

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

The wide band is not the issue. The truck is lean. The stock O2 swings at idle, but goes lean under acceleration. It pings and has a ton of knock. If the truck ran great, I could see a false reading from the wide band, but it doesn't. Data Master shows stock O2 lean, and knock at very low boost. I don't have an exhaust leak any where, I have checked.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Running lean all the time

Have you done the comp check yet or pulled injectors?

 

[kessler]

Re: Running lean all the time

Not yet. I believe that that will tell me what I need to know honestly. I will try to do it tomorrow, pretty busy today. I will post up what I find. Thanks Quickstop