Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Ok well there's good news and bad news.

Good news is........I pulled a part and the mold is going to work. :tup: :tup: :tup:

Bad news is that there was a problem with the mold and it destroyed the mold. I somewhat expected this because when you make the molds, you need to make them without moving the part being molded. However to check if my mold design would work.........I had to remove the part. Well that slight change made it very choppy around the edges. Not a big deal though......I just am ordering more materials today and should have a production mold soon.

I'll post pics soon. I'm waiting for the part to fully cure. It's rather flexible at the moment.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Ok, the batteries in my camera are dead and charging, but here is a crappy cellphone pic. I have it under heatlamps on the alignment pad.

You can see the finish and how well the shine comes out even on an unpainted part.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Here you can see how it's still soft (you see the point where it bows:

And here it is up against the truck (notice I haven't cleanred the edges yet, so there is still flashing from casting the part) and I can say it fits perfectly.

 

[JSM]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Nice job, you are taking on a task I doubt 99.9999999% of owers would even know how to start let alone get that far.

I do agree with doing tests on the smallest piece first. I think the rear corners will be your biggest sellers in end and could fund more development.

 

[gkrcr882]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Nice job, it is good to know that there is finally another alternative to paying big bucks for O.E.M. cladding. While some may dispute the originality aspect, I think it is good to make replacement cladding available for those who bought trucks with damaged or missing cladding. If people are concerned with having everything stock, they can remove the original and put on the replacement, that way if something does happen the real stuff is still safe while the "fake" stuff takes the abuse. Just a thought for the future:2cents:

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

 

[CarbonFiber AWD]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Coolness ! ANd looks like good detail too ? One nice thing about plastics I guess, would be the ability to have basic colors added . But I guess these parts will still need to be primed and painted for each application ?? Some light sanding and solvent washing prior ?
Do you think the parts will distort any when you bond the mounting tabs ? In composites...we have to R&D the resin activations until we find a non invasive amount , that way the top coats are left perfect.Perhaps something likewise for this ?
..........V'

 

[hatrik8]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Nice job. :tup:

How were OEM pieces made? Too bad there isn't a way that we could find out how the OEM pieces were made and recreate that. Are there OEM molds somewhere that PAS had or something? Has that ever been looked into or discussed?

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Coolness ! ANd looks like good detail too ? One nice thing about plastics I guess, would be the ability to have basic colors added . But I guess these parts will still need to be primed and painted for each application ?? Some light sanding and solvent washing prior ?
Do you think the parts will distort any when you bond the mounting tabs ? In composites...we have to R&D the resin activations until we find a non invasive amount , that way the top coats are left perfect.Perhaps something likewise for this ?
..........V'

Well the detail is perfect. It replicates every little thing on my cladding, including any imperfections, so I have a couple things I'll need to refinish on the part before I make the next mold.

Colors can be added. Right now the material I have is raw and is tan in color. I will more than likely be casting them in either grey or black.

If I start selling these, they will not be painted. Finishing like that will be up to the buyer, just like any other body kit. I will experiment with molding it the finish along with the part, which is not unheard of, but the least of my concerns right now.

I have no reason to think it will distort. However, the plan is a multipiece mold next to allow for molding of the tabs rather than them being attached afterwards. With the jig I designed, it keeps the part in alignment during molding, so the part does not distort.

I could have problems with certain reactions that will inhibit curing processes, but other than that, I shouldn't have any problem.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Nice job. :tup:

How were OEM pieces made? Too bad there isn't a way that we could find out how the OEM pieces were made and recreate that. Are there OEM molds somewhere that PAS had or something? Has that ever been looked into or discussed?

The original pieces are a thermoplastic material that were made with an injection molding machine. Thermoplastics are basically small round pellets of plastic that are melted, then injected into a mold where it cools in the shape of whatever mold it was inserted into.

Molds cost many many thousands of dollars to make. The cheapest mold I could get quoted was from China, and it was about $35k While the expensive molds could make many thousands of parts, my molds will only make 1-3 dozen parts before needing to be remade depending on the materials I use.

Also the machine used to make them is bigger than our trucks and cost anywhere from $15k to over $100k. So even if I could get a hold of the mold, I'd have to dump about $20k minimum for a used one off Ebay or something. But considering no single room is big enough in my apartment, that's not exactly an option.

While the expensive molds could make many thousands of parts, my molds will only make 1-3 dozen parts before needing to be remade.

I don't have this option. This is why it's an experiment to see if it works. I'm using what is called thermosetting plastics, meaning that it's an A/B mix or a urethane elastomer with a plasticizer added to make it a "plastic" The part is semi-rigid like the original and weighs actually a little less with the material I first used.

 

[CarbonFiber AWD]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Dan......is there NO pre treatment or release that can aid in the yield of each mold since its a thermoset semi liquid, without effecting the cure?It can add to the each part prep, but add much less wear and tear to you molds.
You have to engineer into the mold some modifications also to aid in demolding. I know in 90% of the final production molds that I have great life out , I had desiged into them some relief chamfers etc. in order to not friction the mold over and over.
Thats one thing bad and inherent in all systems that vary with the materials we use.......there is always some give and take. Which can suck.......but not bad.
You were talking earlier about the factory cladding methods of manufacture.......I noticed some of the spare older partrs that I had were exposed to alot of UV and showed that they had a very fine glass fiber content in them. Which still showed some marbling in thier mix.....which as you know creates weak areas that promote cracking or easy shattering.
Your choice or materials formulations will be critical to how robust and durable the parts will be.
Now the front and rear cladding ( bumper covers) ...I believe to be a Eurothane blend. And they are indeed , much more resilent than the side cladding is. ( to point out the obvious..lol)
..................V'

The original pieces are a thermoplastic material that were made with an injection molding machine. Thermoplastics are basically small round pellets of plastic that are melted, then injected into a mold where it cools in the shape of whatever mold it was inserted into.

Molds cost many many thousands of dollars to make. The cheapest mold I could get quoted was from China, and it was about $35k While the expensive molds could make many thousands of parts, my molds will only make 1-3 dozen parts before needing to be remade depending on the materials I use.

Also the machine used to make them is bigger than our trucks and cost anywhere from $15k to over $100k. So even if I could get a hold of the mold, I'd have to dump about $20k minimum for a used one off Ebay or something. But considering no single room is big enough in my apartment, that's not exactly an option.

While the expensive molds could make many thousands of parts, my molds will only make 1-3 dozen parts before needing to be remade.

I don't have this option. This is why it's an experiment to see if it works. I'm using what is called thermosetting plastics, meaning that it's an A/B mix or a urethane elastomer with a plasticizer added to make it a "plastic" The part is semi-rigid like the original and weighs actually a little less with the material I first used.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Dan......is there NO pre treatment or release that can aid in the yield of each mold since its a thermoset semi liquid, without effecting the cure?It can add to the each part prep, but add much less wear and tear to you molds.
You have to engineer into the mold some modifications also to aid in demolding. I know in 90% of the final production molds that I have great life out , I had desiged into them some relief chamfers etc. in order to not friction the mold over and over.
Thats one thing bad and inherent in all systems that vary with the materials we use.......there is always some give and take. Which can suck.......but not bad.
You were talking earlier about the factory cladding methods of manufacture.......I noticed some of the spare older partrs that I had were exposed to alot of UV and showed that they had a very fine glass fiber content in them. Which still showed some marbling in thier mix.....which as you know creates weak areas that promote cracking or easy shattering.
Your choice or materials formulations will be critical to how robust and durable the parts will be.
Now the front and rear cladding ( bumper covers) ...I believe to be a Eurothane blend. And they are indeed , much more resilent than the side cladding is. ( to point out the obvious..lol)
..................V'

Yes there are some materials I can use that will lengthen the cycles of the mold. It just comes down to testing them and finding out which works and which doesn't.

And yes, I've designed the mold in a manner which I can release the part quite easily. I still am only planning on about 25 parts out of each mold. If I get more, great, but I'm not counting on it.

I have noticed the fibercontent of the wheel arch. I haven't messed much with the other pieces though.

I have a room full of different materials which I plan to cast for testing purposes......impact resistance, flex, heat, etc. I doubt many places will get hotter than it gets here in Arizona, so I think I'm good on the heat tests.

 

[chelo]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Have you taken orders yet? Put me down on your list for a front bumper cover.

 

[George Blake]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

I know your really busy but is there any possibility that particular mold can be used to do a carbon fiber piece? Always wanted to see a real carbon fiber setup for a sy or ty. Your work looks incredible. I can't believe how much you've done!

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Nice job, it is good to know that there is finally another alternative to paying big bucks for O.E.M. cladding. While some may dispute the originality aspect, I think it is good to make replacement cladding available for those who bought trucks with damaged or missing cladding. If people are concerned with having everything stock, they can remove the original and put on the replacement, that way if something does happen the real stuff is still safe while the "fake" stuff takes the abuse. Just a thought for the future:2cents:

i think thats a great idea, but it might be hard for people to wanna pull the orig cladding without breaking it

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Have you taken orders yet? Put me down on your list for a front bumper cover.

Well I won't be taking orders until I'm 110% sure this is going to work. I still have testing to do for heat, stress, etc. Not to mention all the molds I have yet to make.

Once I have each mold done at 110%, then I might be selling the individual pieces. But I doubt there will be a waiting list. It only takes 24 hours max to make a part.

I'll keep you all posted though. :tup:

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

I know your really busy but is there any possibility that particular mold can be used to do a carbon fiber piece? Always wanted to see a real carbon fiber setup for a sy or ty. Your work looks incredible. I can't believe how much you've done!

Well, you can't really do fiberglass or carbon fiber with my mold type of setup. I know there are some others that are working on it. However, when I'm done with the urethane cladding setup, I might work on the vacuum infusion setup again if no one has done it by then. I have all the equipment and materials needed. It's just a matter of making the mold.

 

[SY2932]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Very nice ! Are you using an epoxy binder with a walnut shell aggregate? That's what we use in our molds not that we are expanding into polyurethane where I work... Looks decked pretty true on the top, did you take a fuzz cut with a face mill on a VMC?

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

Very nice ! Are you using an epoxy binder with a walnut shell aggregate? That's what we use in our molds not that we are expanding into polyurethane where I work... Looks decked pretty true on the top, did you take a fuzz cut with a face mill on a VMC?

None of the above actually. What do you make with your molds??

 

[SY2932]

Re: Finally have a mold for making urethane cladding

The plant that I work at specializes in the manufacture of packaging molds. We make molds, tooling and prototypes for some VERY large companies... We design and cut the molds, form the part(s) and machine them to exact specifications if necessary. Now that we are getting more diversified in polyurethane, we are making the tooling to replace parts that have been typically been made of rubber. We are also making parts that have never been manufactured of rubber or polyurethane. Nothing like working at a place that is breaking new ground.